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1 WE, US
The relevant Quenya pronouns make two distinctions not found in English. “We” can be either inclusive or exclusive, depending on whether the party addressed is included in “we” or not. Furthermore, “we” can be either plural (involving at least three persons) or dual (involving only two persons, the speaker and one other). Tolkien repeatedly revised the relevant endings. According to VT49:16, 51 one late resolution goes like this: The ending for plural exclusive “we” is -lmë, corresponding to dual exclusive -mmë. Hence e.g. carilmë *“we [not including you] do”, carimmë *“the two of us do; I and one other [not you] do”. The ending for plural inclusive “we” is to be -lwë or -lvë, corresponding to -ngwë for dual inclusive “we” (VT49:16; variant -nquë in VT49:51): Carilwë “we [including you] do”, caringwë “the two of us do; thou and I do”. The corresponding independent pronouns were pl. exclusive me, pl. inclusive we or later ve with variant vi (PE17:130); when stressed these could have long vowels (mé and wé > vé, VT49:51). They may also appear in object position (“us” rather than “we”), e.g. suffixed to ála “do not” in the negative command álamë tulya, "do not lead us" (VT43:12, 22). If these pronouns are to be dual, they receive the dual ending -t (exclusive met, inclusive wet > *vet; compare imbë met “between us [two]” in Namarië). The dual pronouns do not have a long vowel even when stressed. The pronouns me, we/*ve and their long variants can also receive case endings, like dative men or véna “for us” (VT43:27, 28, 33, VT49:14) or locative messë "on us" (VT44:12). An emphatic pronoun is attested as emmë “we” (VT43:20), this reflects an earlier conceptual stage where Tolkien used the forms in -mmë for plural rather than dual exclusive “we” (VT49:48, cf. forms like vammë, WJ:371); presumably he would later regard emmë as a dual exclusive form, corresponding to pl. *elmë (and with *elwë > *elvë and *engwë as the emphatic pronouns for inclusive “you”, plural and dual, respectively). These emphatic pronouns can also receive case endings; the dative form emmen “for us” is attested (VT43:12, 20). – Genitive forms, see OUR; reflexive pronouns, see OURSELVES. -
2 US
The exclusive pronoun (us = “I and some others, not you”) is me (suffixed to ála “do not” in álamë tulya, "do not lead us”, VT43:12, 22). This pronoun evidently connects with the ending -lmë, see WE. Inclusive "us" (i.e. "you and me") should apparently be *ve (for older we), connecting with the subject ending -lvë (older -lwë). If the pronouns me, *ve are stressed, the vowel may be lengthened (mé, vé, VT49:51). In another conceptual phase, Tolkien’s word for inclusive "we, us" may have been *ngwë (Third Age Quenya *nwë), VT48:11. The dual forms receive the ending -t, hence met, wet > *vet as the words for “us” referring to only two persons (exclusive met = “me and one other [not you]”; inclusive wet/*vet = “thee and me”). – Evidently me, *ve would be the same as subject and object, so that these forms could also be translated "we" as a short independent pronoun, and they can also receive case endings, e.g. attested forms like locative messë "on us", allative mello "from us", dative men "for us", allative véna “to us”. The forms atarmë, metermë "for us" also seem to include me, but these forms were evidently ephemeral ("for us", exclusive, is better rendered as men, itself an attested form). –Nam/RGEO:67, VT43:15, 19, VT44:18, VT49:14
См. также в других словарях:
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. — You can lead a horse to water (but you can t make him/it drink). something that you say which means you can give someone the opportunity to do something, but you cannot force them to do it if they do not want to. I made all the arrangements,… … New idioms dictionary
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. — You can lead a horse to water (but you can t make him/it drink). something that you say which means you can give someone the opportunity to do something, but you cannot force them to do it if they do not want to. I made all the arrangements,… … New idioms dictionary
You can lead a horse to water. — (but you can t make him/it drink). something that you say which means you can give someone the opportunity to do something, but you cannot force them to do it if they do not want to. I made all the arrangements, bought the ticket, and even took… … New idioms dictionary
you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink — ► you can lead a horse to water but you can t make him drink proverb you can give someone an opportunity, but you can t force them to take it. Main Entry: ↑horse … English terms dictionary
you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink — you can lead (or take) a horse to water but you can t make him drink proverb you can give someone an opportunity, but you can t force them to take it … Useful english dictionary
you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink — This idiom means you can offer something to someone, like good advice, but you cannot make them take it … The small dictionary of idiomes
you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink — you can ˌlead/ˌtake a horse to ˌwater, but you ˌcan t make it ˈdrink idiom (saying) you can give sb the opportunity to do sth, but you cannot force them to do it if they do not want to Main entry: ↑horseidiom … Useful english dictionary
you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink — you can provide what they need but you cannot force them to use it We provide information, but I wonder if they read it. You can lead a horse to water … English idioms
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink — This idiom means you can offer something to someone, like good advice, but you cannot make them take it … Dictionary of English idioms
you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink — you can ˌlead/ˌtake a horse to ˌwater, but you ˌcan t make it ˈdrink idiom (saying) you can give sb the opportunity to do sth, but you cannot force them to do it if they do not want to Main entry: ↑horseidiom … Useful english dictionary
you can take a horse to the water, but you can’t make him drink — The word the is frequently omitted from the proverb and lead substituted for take. c 1175 Old English Homilies (EETS) 1st ser. 9 Hwa is thet mei thet hors wettrien the him self nule drinken [who can give water to the horse that will not drink of… … Proverbs new dictionary
